"Censor.NET conversation is leading "Echo of Moscow" correspondent "LosAngelesTimes" Sergei L. Loiko and journalist "Echo of Moscow" and the TV channel "Rain" Timur Olevsky, who saw the battle for the Donetsk airport with your own eyes. This broadcast is prohibited to output in Russia and has been removed from the site.

So Olevsky - you have to know that the airport is part of Donetsk, a district of Donetsk. While the airport Ukrainian Donetsk, not the city completely under the control of DND, and when faced with a question of dividing lines, the question is that Donetsk is not completely the city, owned by DND, will mean that it will have to share. I think maybe in this case there is some political history. Maybe Governor Sergey Taruta before his resignation told the truth about the fact that there is a plan on the exchange of Donetsk airport on part of the territory, which is under Mariupol and occupied by militants or some other part of the territory. He may need to do this, but then again we are talking from the perspective of the soldier. That is, I spent three days with the soldiers, the military, and they don't think about this exchange, although discussing it. I have seen men who are 45 years old, who went into the army on the agenda, these are people with one-thinking higher educations, absolutely successful, most of whom did not tell their families where they are, and so I asked them not to shoot. That is, they all say that he was under the Mykolaiv, so she didn't worry old. And all arrived by volunteers, that is, they wanted to go there "Send us into the Sands. They speak Russian is very important. Some of them say that they do on other language except Russian no say and no day in my life are not taught in Ukrainian. One of these people told me that hates Russia. I say: How is this possible?

A. plushev - But some of them are ethnic Russians.

So Olevsky - Absolutely. They are not just Russians, they are still not integrated in Ukrainophobia culture. They protect their homeland, for them this is a critical moment. In General, there were people, who believe that they should walk to the border and to liberate Ukraine from what happens in DND. And, of course, they say that they are at war with heaven, all who is there. And, surprisingly... I don't know, I don't want populist comparisons in this sense, but to me, indeed, there was a feeling that I've seen what happens when good people to bring to a white heat. Here it is with regards to the regular army, which is, for example, in the artillery battery. They look exactly as I saw them. And what they listen to Rosenbaum and Afghan songs and also watching "Brother-2" and fight with those people who are on the same side, I think...
So Olevsky - you have to know that the airport is part of Donetsk, a district of Donetsk. While the airport Ukrainian Donetsk, not the city completely under the control of DND, and when faced with a question of dividing lines, the question is that Donetsk is not completely the city, owned by DND, will mean that it will have to share. I think maybe in this case there is some political history. Maybe Governor Sergey Taruta before his resignation told the truth about the fact that there is a plan on the exchange of Donetsk airport on part of the territory, which is under Mariupol and occupied by militants or some other part of the territory. He may need to do this, but then again we are talking from the perspective of the soldier. That is, I spent three days with the soldiers, the military, and they don't think about this exchange, although discussing it. I have seen men who are 45 years old, who went into the army on the agenda, these are people with one-thinking higher educations, absolutely successful, most of whom did not tell their families where they are, and so I asked them not to shoot. That is, they all say that he was under the Mykolaiv, so she didn't worry old. And all arrived by volunteers, that is, they wanted to go there "Send us into the Sands. They speak Russian is very important. Some of them say that they do on other language except Russian no say and no day in my life are not taught in Ukrainian. One of these people told me that hates Russia. I say: How is this possible?

A. plushev - But some of them are ethnic Russians.

So Olevsky - Absolutely. They are not just Russians, they are still not integrated in Ukrainophobia culture. They protect their homeland, for them this is a critical moment. In General, there were people, who believe that they should walk to the border and to liberate Ukraine from what happens in DND. And, of course, they say that they are at war with heaven, all who is there. And, surprisingly... I don't know, I don't want populist comparisons in this sense, but to me, indeed, there was a feeling that I've seen what happens when good people to bring to a white heat. Here it is with regards to the regular army, which is, for example, in the artillery battery. They look exactly as I saw them. And what they listen to Rosenbaum and Afghan songs and also watching "Brother-2" and fight with those people who are on the same side, I think...

A. plushev - Doing the same thing.

So Olevsky - I think, Yes. Well, I guess some of them just the same. It is very impressive. I saw people who are at war almost mate don't talk.

C. Loyko - I want to add that inside the airport from the military operational language is Russian. On the radio all speak Russian. No Ukrainian society is not there. It struck me that indeed in non-critical situations, in non-emergency situations, not under fire I heard not just in everyday speech from anyone no Mat. And what struck me - it was clean, cultural, almost literary Russian, because most of the people that were there, they were intelligent, educated people. This was not some redneck, it wasn't some soldiers that were found in some villages and drove as cannon fodder. And that struck me: almost half, if not most, of those who were with me at the airport, they were officers. And I never saw any kobrinskogo, then Soviet, then Russian this officer's rudeness. It was the brotherhood. And a member and officer drank from one Cup, defended each other, he put his shoulder, they were talking to you. But if very old and very young, maybe you would have heard even you. I watched as mayor miner Valery Rud - there is almost 40, he was a lifelong military man - and he mines there something in this passage. And in this moment the war begins firing, and the kid from "the Right sector" there is absolutely dreadful position of the gun tries to shoot somewhere. And this Valery runs through penetrable space and says, "Boy, this is my war. Well move over!", and he removes it and this time there is just beside something explodes. If he is not removed it, this guy would have died. And this Valery rearranges the gun out of the way and starts, like a real war, to fight, and he leads until it ends, and then he returns to his business. He only saved the life of this unknown volunteer ordinary. And the most striking moment for me was when the tank was sent home. So was the tank. The tank fired...

I spoke about this in my today's article in "LosAngelesTimes", which was published on the first page on the main photo of rooms. I brag: I got this is the third article of the main and the main picture. Today it happened, and there was an episode: the return of the tank home. So was the tank - the tank fired. Was a crew of three, they jumped out of the burning. Sniper no one missed them killed. The two managed to pull. But there was mortar fire, and the third just swept Bang, and it could not find. And after a few days they found a chunk that big hips against him. And started this conversation: "We must send tankman home." But how to send? It should be out on the tarmac to get a bullet in every part of his body to send a piece of the dead man's home - well, I would say. And when the commander said, "Guys, this is really deadly, dangerous thing. Who will go?" And all raised their hands. And then the two got up immediately. This sniper Slavik, airman Mike. And, when it came to transportation, the fire was distracted by the transport, they ran out onto the tarmac, and put their rifles and sniper, sniper rifle; found a box of ammunition found this leg is under fire. It was me, I stood and removed. Here we stand together, they put this piece in the box and then the bullet penetrates the box - the chips are down, all rings around. They close this box and under fire wire tie the box to the vehicle, then they run to grab their weapons and continue the fight. These guys 30 seconds risked absolutely risked their lives for the sake of a dead comrade.

So Olevsky - With probability 100% almost
 C. L. Loiko And Slavik then said to me: "Well, I don't want to I did not come home that way, and to me here on the airfield was eaten by dogs. They are absolute heroes. And, actually, I hate to romanticize the war, but I always remember in this connection, mini-Stalingrad poems by my favorite poet Semyon Gudzenko, Pavel Kogan, who lived in the same house with me, but at different times. And there's a short poem Kogan:

Us to go, where to go,

And there not to stand, where to go.

And, zadkovich "international",

Lie face down on the dry grass.

And not to stand and not to fall into the annals,

And even relatives glory could not be found.

A. plushev - I think it's just the emotional stress that is transmitted from you, Sergey, our equipment, unfortunately.

Sergei L. Loiko took our equipment on attrition, is called. We moved to another Studio.

C. Loyko - I moved the struggle "beaver with a donkey here.

A. plushev - As it happens. We don't have much time left, and issues here quite a lot from our listeners. They turn to the topic that you mentioned in the beginning, Sergey, what an absolute evil, absolute goodness. Watching, maybe here, maybe from other places... we someone sends greetings from Chicago in particular. Our listeners write for example: "the Army, which destroys his people, cannot be heroes".

C. L. Loiko they are on TV learned?

A. plushev - I don't know, I do not report. I'm telling you the reaction.

C. Loyko - Sasha, I spent the Ukrainian war of the past six months. I don't know what army destroys his people, because this army, whose nation is there, it does not destroy. And the army, which destroys the people is not the Ukrainian army.

So Olevsky - I can tell you about the Sands, for example, is directly the airport where there were few houses, and the rest left. People for some reason - they do not leave even when the house explode. And the army they are fed, and they feed the army. They have a very developed what is called relationship, and no, you know, massive sweeps of the people who live there and theoretically, maybe even supported DND - nothing happens. I saw another story which I think is very important. This story happened in Donetsk airport, it seems, on Friday I was there when the artillery, "Grads" separatists from one area of Donetsk shot position other separatists in another A. plushev Separatists separatists bombed?

So Olevsky - Yes, and it was, apparently, different groups, it is impossible to explain: there was no Ukrainian army.

A. plushev - It was accidental friendly fire?

C. L. Loiko is a conflict.

So Olevsky Is continued for several hours. They fired five hours of each other, and then suffered a fire on the position of the Ukrainian army and the Ukrainian army fired at this time in the evening, quite seriously, positions at the airport and in the Sands, and before that, a few hours they were shooting at each other. What it was, I don't know. For some reason they found out the relationship between themselves, and who were in a strange blue building at the airport, which they fired from the residential district of Donetsk - well, I don't know, maybe he is not residential, but at least it was visible in the direction.

C. Loyko - the fact that the Ukrainian military, have artillery and "Grads" - they are professional soldiers.

So Olevsky - Other just isn't there.

C. Loyko - And these DND-sheep, LNR-sheep - it's the monkey with a grenade, which hit the plane.

So Olevsky - But there are people also professional enough.

C. Loyko - There are some professionals, guys, but it's a bunch of these mercenaries who just namavali technology, they don't even understand how to use it. They got everything that's worth.

So Olevsky - I think that has all changed now, Serge. I will not agree with you. What you now say about the situation one month ago. They fundamentally changed after the people working there that the Ukrainian military is clearly referred to as a Russian army. There has fundamentally changed as a warring people. Another issue is that there is one strong group shooting other, less loyal and obedient groups. At least so it seems. Maybe not, but this is very similar to this.

A. plushev is Another question, about separatists and Ukrainian troops. We have many shows on television that side of the airport from residential neighborhoods Donetsk go shelling.

C. Loyko - May I say at once. Guys, I will reveal military secrets: from the airport you cannot maintain any shelling, because there is a weapon more terrible than the machine gun.

So Olevsky - There are mines.
C. Loyko - There are no mortars, no. I still remembered one episode, I wanted to add to what was said. I was talking with a guy. Sergey Galan is a student of journalism from Cherkasy. His father was a Russian Colonel, he is still a Russian Colonel. And he was a Ukrainian soldier, trooper. And before going into the army and before you get to the airport, he called his father or his father called him. And father brainwashed these absolute shameless, criminal lies of Russian television...

So Olevsky - exactly.

C. Loika Said: "You'll shoot your brothers!" And then his son said, "Well, any brothers, dad? Those brothers who came to me with a gun in my country - what are they brothers?"

So Olevsky is Now on fire. I can only say what I saw. I've seen a number of mortars, will not say how many - probably, I promised not to say who stand near the airport, this 120-mm mortars, but each of them is positioned on a definite purpose, which should protect the Ukrainian soldiers at the airport. Each of them tied to a specific purpose, and they are very well trained. Just shoot the milk does not come to anyone's head. Every shot has a certain value. Why? Because all curse the truce is declared. The Ukrainian army - what I saw - very carefully stick to it. To the extent that, when fired position at the airport from small arms, that is, from automatic weapons, sniper rifles and other things, on the radio you hear the order: do Not respond with artillery fire, because this is a provocation, we do not respond to provocation. The first shot that I heard on Thursday on Friday, which came from these mortars and flew in the direction of the positions of the separatists at the airport, came in response to arrived shells on the position in Pestovo. When started the shelling was a response to the shelling, but it was a few minutes But they were aligned to a specific location at the airport. To assume that they are frightened, flew to the city centre... Well, that's on the battery exactly where I was, it is impossible to imagine. Maybe there's some other artillery. But another question that I has ever seen. But I want to say that Ukraine is now very sparingly answers artillery, very sparingly. Because the truce, and they are very, cursing him, afraid to break it.

C. Loyko - Here with me commander yells, "Now will our "Grads". They go so close. You know, they can miss, so everyone in the shelter. So, when I went to infantry separatist militants to storm the airport, they hit the artillery, but the artillery beat so surgically, which is almost nearly destroyed the entire airport, because it was torn all there, all this is staggering, falling apart. Guys, if the Ukrainian army, as they say on your TV, would like to destroy the Ukrainian people, as they say on your TV, she would have done it long ago. I'm 25-I am the war. 25th trip to the war. I was at the destruction of the first terrible in the 95-th year, I was at the destruction of the second Grozny in 2000 year. There wanted to destroy the people and destroyed the city, wiped it from the face of the earth, twice. Here, you look at Slavyansk. How many shouted these our zombie guys that there are "Degrees" works in the city. Yes, now you come in Slavyansk - you don't even know where you are. Normal city, all live, electricity works. Well a couple of ruined, dilapidated houses. And in Donetsk? Well also have destroyed some houses destroyed communication. But it is no comparison with the Terrible. But the terrible - they held the counter-terrorist operation. So where we Stalingrad, where a counter-terrorist operation? And, in fact, speaking of Stalingrad, now this war has reminded me that war where one side is treacherously attacked another well. And they had a Brest fortress...
A. plushev - You ask a personal question, Sergey: "with such a loud pathetic you to be a journalist. I quite sympathize with your position, - says Oleg from Moscow, but I'm in such cases does not come to mind to sing such Osanna one of the parties". Interestingly, in any such cases.

C. Loyko - I, I don't sing no osann, I tell you what it was. And now I tell it not as a journalist and as someone who was there as a witness. I tell you what I saw; I sing, I know. You read my article, who cares, then judge me.

A. plushev - by the Way, the photos in Facebook you have to see.

C. Loyko - Yes, the photos came out great gallery in LosAngelesTimes" and I posted a huge gallery on Facebook - let's see. And I saw here that the Brest fortress is Saur-Grave. Then I saw these boilers environment, as it was in the 41st year. And here this mini-Stalingrad. In Stalingrad was broken by the Soviet clichés, the backbone of fascism. Here I saw with my own eyes, as in this mini-Stalingrad broke the ridge I don't know what there is to fascism or not - but motorism this, orgasmo, this mindless bloodthirsty terrorism - that's for sure. For me there is no doubt that this is DND, LNR is completely invented semi-fascist organization, whose task is not to do something for the Ukrainian people, not to create something for the Ukrainian people, not to make the Ukrainian people happy, and just create endless this zone nightmare to turn the Ukraine into the airport. Who cares - it's not for me to judge.

So Olevsky - See what else you want to add. I naturally heard of the Ukrainian military calls originating in the Sands of the great Patriotic war, a few times it was pronounced by different people in different fires, so this is just an idea. I heard the same in Gorlovka, people that Butler repairing armored personnel carriers.

A. plushev - From the separatists. You just poiasnyi, because, so deeply was driving themselves in mesocrystal history and not only between...

So Olevsky - Well, Yes, because I was in Ukraine, in Donetsk and again. And here it is necessary to understand, Gorlovka is a different story. She manages strange officer with his notions of good and evil, with his view that he can solve...

C. Loyko - but what is it officer!

So Olevsky - No, he is an officer of the Soviet army.

C. Loyko - that's it.

So Olevsky - Look, he has the right to decide who should live, who does not. He has some ideas about how it should be fine and as it should be bad, and he, at least, there are the rules of the game, with which you can agree. Now he negotiated with Ukraine about different things, for example, heat in Gorlovka, and with him, in General, negotiations, that is, with him, in principle, Ukraine can negotiate. And there is the Donetsk and Lugansk, where the situation is completely different, and there I saw the group, who first robbed people, then was put under fire and always said that they protect them. But there is also said that this is a war against fascism. Here is a question. They say that there's a war against fascism. Now DND in Donetsk says that they fight against fascism, with the junta. The Ukrainian army says it's the Great Patriotic war and makes a comparison with the Second world war, where they also fought in fascism. But it seems to me quite an important story, because they now perceive Russia as the country as Nazi Germany at a different time. They perceive Russia as the aggressor, and that is very important for us to understand that this is forever. This children's children will remember. That's the idea that ultimately the Ukraine as a whole believes and is justified believes that she is at war not with DND that it is at war with Russia. It's the tragedy of this story, of course.

A. plushev Couple of minutes left. We have already said, what's going on inside separatists: any contradictions occur there until the shooting and destruction. You even mentioned the fact that inside of the Ukrainian side, between the army and the "Right" sector too difficult relationship. A couple of minutes.
 So Olevsky - Very briefly Right sector" is still the right organization that has taken on different right from all over Ukraine, and I, for instance, I met an employee of the Federal security service of Russia Primorsky, who served in the FSB, but was quite right, who believed that terrorist methods to fight for the right idea in Russia was quite normal, and then came Right sector, it has not been taken in "Azov"was checked on the polygraph. And saw the Ukrainian right that no right, sorry, more like the left. And they are more similar to football fans, and if you are there waiting for some stories of burned children and young Jewish pogroms, it is not closely analogous to what happens with the Ukrainian side. But in the army to the people who adhere to some sort of the right idea, are very negative. Moreover, they do not allow themselves even chevrons were not authorized. And, in General, I think that it's all self-indulgence and excess. That is, they perceive them as comrades-in-arms, but they are internationalists, of course.

A. plushev - Minute. Sergei L. Loiko add to this.

C. Loyko - In this nationalist organization "the Right part" I found a machine gun "Maxim" acting, which is very loud shot. And this heavy machine gun was a Jew Valery Chudnovsky, and then Colonel of the Ukrainian army, the real Colonel Oleg Zubovsky at the airport told me that "these guys are from the "Right sector" only that extreme did what they arrived at the airport, but they are bold, brave, they are real and we always know we can rely on."

So Olevsky - Yes, they have such relationships. Another question, I realized that the Ukrainian army, which is fighting on the front line is made up of people, or the past... there eating some of the people who have been hot spots, one way or another and people who have multiple formations and who came to the war completely on their own...

A. plushev Our colleague Timur Olevsky and Sergei L. Loiko, the correspondent of "LosAngelesTimes" told you today, "Their eyes" about what is happening now in Donetsk airport, at least as they saw it. Thank you and good bye!
 "Echo Of Moscow"

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